Assalam Alaycom I have a question for mufti Billal
Can I trade wisdomtree physical palladinum and platinum etc as they are shariah compliant certified from al Qualam as day trader via trading 212 ,many trade per day but on the fact sheet they say T+2 for settlement
Is it permissible 100% halal ( is it compliant with the Judith don’t sell what you don’t own)
JAZAKOM ALLAH KAYRAN
Wasalam
May Allah bless you.
I am not at Al Qalam anymore, hence I wouldn’t know unfortunately.
However, if Wisdomtree is truly certified by Al Qalam shariah panel or the Chair Mufti Zubair, then I am in no position to doubt its compliance.
Kind regards
Jazakom allah Kayran
It is al Qualam certified and no doubt it is halal but my question is about how to trade it to be fully shariah complaint
can I trade it with trading 212 as daily trader and the problem hier the settlement T+2 any contradiction with the hadith" don’t sell what you don’t have"
I want buy and sell many times per day
So is that settlement for primary market only not with broker and I got the ownership immediately after buy order or sell order(for the payment)
Baraka Allah fik seik
No you cannot buy and sell the metal securities within the same day. As you have mentioned, there is a delay in the settlement of up to T+2. Until settlement is completed you cannot sell them. Al Qalam has also confirmed this in their certificate, please see the link below:
And Allah knows best!
Thank you very much seik ,this is the matter buying and selling many times on the same day.
I did contact wisdomtree and they explained that the settlement t+2 is only for primary market only
And trades via brokers are immediately
I will forward a copy of the email
Please help me to make s decision it is very important
Blockquote
Yes, trades are settled instantly when you trade via a broker. However, I don’t think the transactions are cleared and settled instantly with the clearing house who will receive the orders via brokers.
You need to enquire about it with the broker you are trading with.
Can you repost your question and it will answered later on inshaAllah.
Assalam Alaycom,
Wisdomtree e-mailed me again to clarify that trading via broker take 2 days too ( change what they said first "immediately ")
1- Do you consider notification after order buy is executed or e-mail confirmation as equivalent of ownership or settlement or I have to wait for full settlement like t+2 to sell even I am only trading commodities platinum and palladinum Etc only (not companies shares,gold and silver) different Islamic rules may be
There is no devidents on platinum and palladinum so the only raison I am trading is just to make profit from capital gain and market volatility
2-does it look like gambling?
The settlement for sell this time is 2 days also
3- Do I have to wait 2 days till I got money physically to buy again even it allow me to use it immediately or it is fine as long as there is no leverage or harem loan involved and is not the case of " don’t sell what you don’t own "
4- the metals will never be delivered to me not like bullion vault ,is it still permissible to trade it?
JAZAKOM ALLAH KAYRAN
Wasalam
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You have to wait until full settlement after T+2.
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No it is not gambling.
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Yes you have to wait until settlement is completed
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Sorry but what do you mean by it is not delivered to you like bullion vault?
I ment no physical delivery for the platinum to the investor if I request it
Finally ,According to the table from wisdomtree (I attached to you ,was any chance you had a look at it ) we can conclude definitely I have to wait 2 days after buy and also after sell and incha Allah the complete deal is end to end shariah compliant
And for halalness from 1 to 10 how much you rate the money I gain from these trading example I can do haj with it
Really thank you very much for the help and support
JAZAKOM ALLAH KAYRAN
As salam Alaikum @Mufti_Billal
In another thread titled “Using Proceeds from share sell before settlement” dated 9th Aug , @Mufti_Faraz_Adam had mentioned the below
Could you please confirm if this understanding of using the proceeds of selling a long term share can be used immediately and not have to wait T+2 days to use it .
With regards
Ahmed
1 Like
Do you have more information about this?
Yes 2 days.
Send me the information as to why there is no physical delivery with Trading 212 as opposed to Bullion please.
This is the link for the security I am trading with other links please kindly have a look at it ,it wiĺ be a massive favour
They said it is just a debt security and stay on hsbc vault the custodian
I received an e-mail from trading 212 regarding settlement
I am not sure how it can be a debt security? If its a debt security, then how can it be shariah compliant.
I think the best thing here is to, send the emails you received from Trading 212 to Al Qalam. Since the Wisdomtree product has been certified by them, you need to ask Al Qalam about some clarity on how you can trade.
Once you received a response from Al Qalam, it would be helpful if you could share the information with us.
Salem,
It was a pleasure I spoke with mufti Mohammed Zubair he said it is fine as long as you respect settlement, so I have to wait 2 days after buy to sell again but he look like he don’t have problem if I buy same day no need to wait for full settlement before buying again, he didn’t give me final answer for the settlement after selling
But he mentioned it is safer to wait 2 days for buy and sell
I don’t mind to wait 2 days but it is etc not etf is it really halal also all of them they say it is physically backed but ho said it is the case in real life and the allocation happen after 2 days…
I know you don’t give financial advice, do you know Any alternative for platinumand palladinum Etf ( amanie advisors never get back to me )
Salem
Wasalam
Yes it is definitly safer to wait 2 days for selling (and also buying in my opinion).
Also, did Mufti Zubair provide any explanation as to why it is permissible to trade platinum that cannot be withdrawn? I am really curious to know about it. I am tagging @Mufti_Faraz_Adam who can maybe shed some light.
@ibrahimkhan @Mohsin_from_IFG or @ZubairLK can probably tell us more about the above.
He said it is permissible I did ask exactly the same question
It is also for gold silver and palladinum
Wisdomtree EtC
That s why I am staying away from gold and silver
This page from Islamic finance guru has lot of etf and etc choices but with lot of respect I don’t agree with the 2 lists
As I contacted most of them and said they are not certified
If they are physically backed doesn’t make it shariah compliant
Regards
The ping was probably intended for some other Zubair…
Assalam Alaycom,
I after long research I changed my opinion about buying after settlement, I think I don’t have to wait for 2 days to buy again and I can use the money immediately ,wich is also mufti Mohammed Zubair and mufti Faraz point of view…
Is any update from mufti Faraz about the ETC halalness (I thing you tagged someone else by mistake
When I trade this ETC in xetra with euro there is extra profit or loss just from currency impact ,is that extra profit halal?
JAZAKOM ALLAH KAYRAN
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