Assalam,
In my previous company we were provided with shopping saving vouchers such as in supermarkets.
It was around 5% - 7% off and in some places more. When I left the company they seem to have not removed this benefit from me and I am still able to utilise this.
Would this be considered haram to use?
Thank you.
Wa alaykom il Salam.
Ahmed
Wa aleykum salam
May Allah bless you,
Do you mean the vouchers are with you from the time you were employed? or you are still being issued with vouchers?
Assalam Wa-Alaykum,
The vouchers are based on a scheme, so you just log in and buy any vouchers you wish.
So if you want to buy for example $20 credit for a store, you would only pay $18 in cash on your debit card and they give you a code to use in the store to the value of $20.
Thanks
Wa alaykom il Salam.
Wasalam
The scheme in itself is problematic. Even if you were still employed by this company, it would have been impermissible to use such scheme.
When you pay for such vouchers at a discounted price, it is similar to exchanging money for money at an unequal value. This is not allowed in Islam i.e you cannot exchange $20 with $25 or $10. It has to be of the same equal amount i.e. $20 for $20.
And Allah knows best!
Assalam,
I was under the same thinking approach however I am now contemplating this.
The reason for my thought chain (and correct me if I am wrong) is that the prohibition is based on like for like money if the basis is usury or a money-making intention such as;
This seems a more likely approach to where Islam as a religion is educating us. Basically exploitation.
In my situation however I think since both the retailer and the voucher scheme have come to an agreement that real money upfront has more spending power then being tied into using the voucher in one store and as a credit they are able to offer this benefit at a lower cost for e.g. ($19 cash gets you $20 dollars in a store).
So in the example above;
In this case both of you have agreed ‘a rate’ of exchange or trade in which both parties benefit.
I hope this makes more sense?
The only real concern in my question is that are you prohibited from using such a scheme if you no longer work for the company that provided you with it since it was for employees despite your ability to still use it? Does Islam accept this as your luck and you may continue to use the scheme? Or is it considered exploitation to use and one should refrain?
What do you think?
And Allah knows best.
I didn’t quite understand the explanation you gave on barley and rice sorry.
I don’t know the details of the agreement between you and your ex employer, so I cannot comment on your scenario.
You have raised an important point which I should clarify. Let me give you an example based on a real scenario: someone rents a house for 6 months, and 6 months later the landlord forgot he had a tenant in there. The tenant choses to overstay as long as it takes, would people think of it as Islamic? I don’t think so! People tend to make things halal and Islamic when it is in their favour, when it is against them, then even the halal becomes a sinful act! My point is, we should always fulfil our agreement. If there is no agreement in place for us to benefit from something, then we should refrain from exploiting the other party, even if the other party will not suffer much from our action.
Assalam @Mufti_Billal
Yes, this is exactly why I asked if this counts as exploitation rather then luck?
For that reason alone it is enough to stop using the scheme I personally believe.
But on the basis of $20 for $20 in Islam I believe was purely implemented in the times where exploitation would take place (such as rice and barley since this is what they use to trade many years ago).
Sorry if my example wasn’t clear on the rice and barley, I will use another example:
If an agreement is in place that benefits both parties I assume this cannot be seen as exploitation thus $19 for a $20 dollar value simply seems as acceptable in my opinion.
However I believe where the issue is in my case is that since I no longer work for that company one should refrain from using the scheme since one would be: ‘taking advantage of their position’?
I think that is a more suitable chain of thought?
And Allah knows best.
I am not sure what you mean by luck…is there such thing as luck in Islam? or do we mean by luck God’s decree? Which would mean God chose for you to exploit others? or opened up an opportunity for you to exploit? and consequently you chose to do so?
I still don’t understand what you are trying to say with the rice and barley example, and the connection with you purchasing a discounted voucher, sorry 
An alternative to the word ‘Luck’ can be seen as ‘Test’. So for example one becomes lucky or tested in having this opportunity to use these vouchers. Using the vouchers would be failing the test, refraining from using the vouchers would be passing the test.
My apologies. The point I was making here is I personally believe it is those who exploit that are condemned by God. $19 cash for $20 represents good value where both parties are happy therefore not an exploitation - another way of looking at can be ‘An Agreement’.
Anyway, winding down using the scheme I believe would be the best option thus avoiding exploiting my lucky/tested position.
Very good discussion this has been 
I agree with you.
Also, we don’t judge things by trying to work out if its a test or luck. Life in itself is a test. We work out what is halal and haram through valid sources.
The prohibition of interest is based on established principles, and not on personal feelings.
God prohibited riba as it is an exploitation. God did not ask us if we were happy or not to be exploited. Take an example of refugees who happily pay thousand of pounds to smugglers, in order to cross the sea to enter Britain. The smugglers are criminals, the smuggling business they do, is an exploitation. This factual truth will not change just because, many of the refugees are happy to pay.
Similarly, certain modes of transactions were widely spread among the Arabs. Yet, despite having adopted them as part of their business practises, the prophet (pbuh) made them haram, due to the exploiting nature behind them. At no point, people were asked if they were happy to engage in this sort of transactions or not.
If we are to look back in history, I am sure will find many other similar examples of things that are haram. Yet, people were happy to engage in them.
Agreed on the point of Riba in general however there is no Riba going on here.
This is simply you paying $19 for a $20 voucher since the provider is prepared to take $19 up front in exchange for $20 whenever you decide to use it in their store - you simply prepaid the same supplier. Its a form of mutual agreement with no exploitation intent. An example of this would be filling your car with fuel. You pay upfront for something you may or may not use and in the interim fuel prices may fluctuate rendering you either ‘better off’ for refuelling at today’s prices or ‘worse off’ for refuelling at next week’s prices. Mortgages are different matter altogether however and yes, they are Riba.
My concern was never questioning the scheme as personally (and Islam is based heavily on your inner intentions) I believe there is nothing wrong with. My cease to use it is based on the fundamental that this voucher scheme is for employees of company X which I am no longer part of so technically I should not be benefiting from this benefit.
And Allah knows best.
Sorry but you did not say that earlier. There is a difference between a supplier selling a voucher to you, as opposed to a third party. Earlier you led me to believe that there is a third party who has a set up a voucher scheme, and they are selling vouchers of other retailers.
There is a difference between the two.
When you pay £15 for a £20 voucher from a supermarket, the extra £5 is a gift from them. You have effectively paid them up front £15 to use later on.
This voucher is now a guaranteed debt from the supermarket. However, the holder of such voucher, cannot sell it at another value. Because then, the holder is selling a debt to another party at a different price. It then effectively becomes equivalent to the selling of money for money. If this is done at a different value other than the voucher’s one, then it is impermissible.
This example does not apply here.
There is a difference between having an intention that renders an act of worship valid, which is the case in many places, as opposed of having a personal feeling, on whether something is halal or not. This approach is dangerous and wrong. I have seen many times when I was in North America particularly, where some Muslims chose to eat haram meat, claiming that their intention is pure and that they don’t feel they are doing anything wrong. Because we feel we are not doing wrong, does not mean we are right. In the issue of riba it is same, because people do not feel oppressed, it does not mean it is right sadly.
There is a huge difference between eating something Haram and ‘claiming their intention is good’. The posts and examples I have provided do not mention any such reference or extremity whatsoever. What is Haram is Haram and what is Halal is Halal and this is clear. Exploitation was my initial point and I tried to give examples explaining this. When exploitation occurs Islam steps in to stop it through rules on Riba, Trade, Eating money from orphans, Zakat all which are clearly mentioned throughout the Quran. When no exploitation is occurring then things become grey and judgment (and Allah knows best) will be passed on intentions, this is why Allah mentions many many times that he knows what is in our chests (thoughts). Anyway this will always be subject to debate
I apologise for any confusion. My earlier posting of a voucher scheme still does apply. This is a company in which you go to a website, login, look for a supplier you wish to save money on, and then make the chosen purchase. Can you guide me as to the difference and its permissibility or impermissibility? Isn’t this ultimately the same as asking a friend to purchase something for you as they have more purchasing power thus can provide a discount for you or in the case of the voucher scheme, do they not act as bridge and take a small percentage in each sell…?
Sorry I am trying to learn not challenge here. You are the expert not me.
Please refer back to the previous exchanges.
Sadly, as I have been trying to point out, this conclusion is wrong. Islam does not wait for exploitation to occur, and then decide to act to put rules in place. On the contrary, it has established rules to prevent exploitation. These rules we must abide to, no matter how we feel about them. If the light is green for me to go, and I am happy to stop, and let the other car proceeds in front of me, even though the light is red for them, then its wrong. The other driver is breaking the law even if I was happy to let him go. The same applies here, whether or not the paying party feels obliged or exploited or not, to pay for riba, does not matter.
You keep saying the parties involved in the voucher scheme are all happy with the agreement and hence there is no riba involved as there is no exploitation taking place. This conclusion is wrong for the above reason.
It depends, is the friend buying something on your behalf and then you repay him the loan at a discounted value? Or is he buying something, takes ownership of it, and then sells it to you at a discounted price? Or did he create a debt between himself and the seller and now tries to sell this debt?