Vanatge fx claims having a islamic fx account based on following:

Investment Questions and Chats Stocks
#1

Selam !

I studied the forex market nature for 3 year and i made a break through through consistancy. I have a well developed trading plan with high probability trades and a proper risk management which includes 1%-0% risk… i have a islamic account which doesn’t have swap (interest) i have a 1:30 leverage.

There is this debate about the forex trading wether its halal or haram.
To me it doesn’t feel like that because i studied hard for it. For 3 years. I would like to know u opinion about it

here is one broker called vanatge fx who calim to have an islamic account and approval from sheikh Hasan Qamra and their reasons are as following:
How are the funds segregated and ring fenced in Vantage FX for Shariah Compliance？

  • We have separate accounts which never mingle with conventional funds. All clients funds are held in a segregated account with Australia’s AA rated National Australian Bank (NAB).

How can I withdraw my funds from Vantage FX Islamic accounts？

  • Vantage FX clients can request withdrawal of their funds anytime by accessing their Client Portal and lodging a withdrawal request. All withdrawal requests are processed once a day around 1pm AEST. Any withdrawal request received after 1pm Sydney time is automatically processed the following business day around 1pm AEST.
    What fees and charges apply to Vantage FX Islamic accounts？
    -All Muslim clients who use a Vantage FX Islamic account will be charged Standard STP spreads and the daily administration fee.
    What spreads do I get charged on a Vantage FX Islamic account？
    -Vantage FX charges Standard STP spreads or Raw ECN spreads on all Islamic accounts.

Are there swap or interest charges？
-There are no swap or interest charges. We charge an admin/agency (Wakeel) fee justifiable for administration related expenses to manage your account.

How are trades processed on a Vantage FX Islamic account？
-The client places the trade and Vantage FX transfer the trade to a liquidity provider. This means that the client’s trade always has an effect on supply/demand as it is a position in the real market. Clients can be assured that they are trading real prices and affecting prices via supply demand with their own positions. The client is always responsible for the effect that his order has on the underlying market. Positions, even small during times of low liquidity, can move the market. The client has full ownership of his trade and its effect.
Why do I get charged an administration fee on Vantage FX Islamic accounts？
-In order to provide fair and transparent access to global markets, Vantage FX has to pass on the costs associated with maintaining their open positions. All our liquidity providers charge certain fees to keep positions open and this cost is passed onto clients via the daily Administration fee.

How are trades executed on Vantage FX Islamic accounts and is there actual possession (Qabdh) of currencies？
-Vantage FX guarantees absolute transparency in trading. Whether you trade Forex, Commodities or Indicies, with our Islamic account you can be assured that all our pricing comes directly from Liquidity Providers, and thus be assured your trading and trading exposure are real; a basic requirement that makes our Islamic account Shariah compliant.

Are there always Liquidity Providers (LP) involved in your trading model？

  • If a broker does not use LP’s to access the interbank market then they are a market maker and there is a direct conflict of interest between broker and trader. The account balances of all these different currency denominations are held within our segregated bank account. In our case this is with the National Australia Bank (NAB). These funds then allow the client to trade up to 50 currency pairs via our liquidity providers. Yes there is always possession and we serve on your behalf as agent (Wakeel) to take possession on your behalf. This is also known as A-Book broker model.

Does Vantage FX provide a loan to clients to trade on an Islamic account？
-Vantage FX doesn’t provide any loan to clients. Vantage FX provides margin trading where all trade financing is provided by Liquidity Providers who then charge Vantage FX Administration Fee.
The Administration fee is then passed onto clients via MT4 platform.

What is the Shariah basis for this product？
-The relationship between Vantage FX and the client is that of Wakalah/agency. Vantage FX being the agent that manages the accounts and charges an Administration fee based on a signed mandate. The relationship between the liquidity providers and Vantage FX is that of Qardh (Loan) which is managed under a signed mandate by Vantage FX. The account holders do not sign a mandate with the liquidity provider and have an agreement only with Vantage FX. The actual trading is referred to as Bay al-Sarf (currency trading).
Is the Vantage FX Islamic account Shariah compliant？
-At Vantage FX we are fully committed to delivering the first officially certified Islamic account. We have worked alongside well known shariah scholars including Sheikh Hasan Qamra, Chairman of the Shariah Board and follow his strict requirements in order to receive official certification which proves that Vantage FX account is fully Shariah compliant. cou
Could you please give me the opinion based on this information ?
Thankyou
Regards,
omar

1 Like
#2

Wasalam

Please see the following link for more information:

Kind regards

1 Like
Fatwa: Is forex haram or halal? A comprehensive fatwa compilation
#4

@Kal brother i allready moved to stocks
thanks for the comment

#6

@Kal Selam brother
I am glad that i moved to stocks. There more choices to trade and the makret is slower so you can take your time stepping in the market which prevents making mistakes :smiley:

#8

@Kal I actually trade the USA stock market. because it opens here in holland 15:30 to 22:00 so it gives me opportunity to step in the market after my job haha. so i won’t miss any trades.but yeah i can analize UK market with u as well so we can share point of views

#10

@Kal do you have a platform brother ? i can share the forecast with u on these specifics

#11

Salam Aleylum @Mufti_Billal , If I only trade with commodities like gold, silver, oil,… no forex, do you think it’s halal ? because the forex is not sure there is lot of different opinions, but the gold…etc is it halal money ?
Thank you

#12

I researched a broker called fp markets very deeply and talked to them, and they gave me the following answer:

About Halal Forex
Trading - Halal Trading
with Islamic Forex
Accounts

Islamic finance is guided by four basic principles:

1 | Prohibition of gambling

According to Islam, gambling is prohibited but trading forex and other financial instruments can be considered an educated game of chance which involves the buying and selling of assets based on forex market analysis and using a variety of concepts and trading strategies.

2 | Prohibition of payment and
receipt of any interest rate (Riba)

Usually, when a trader holds open positions at the close of a trading session, FP Markets charges a swap commission linked to an interest rate which is in turn related to the fact that traders receive an indirect loan through leverage. This leverage usually results in profit for the forex broker and therefore why a standard trading account is classified as haram given it includes interest payment whereas an Islamic trading account would be halal as it does not feature payment of these swap interest rates and therefore satisfies the riba threshold.

3 | Risk and benefits distribution

One of the principal concerns about trading is the element of shared risk. Interest ensures a reward for the lender and the borrower is the one who incurs the risk. Excessive or a high level of risk (gharar) is prohibited in the same way that excessive gambling is. Financial activity must also be seen to promote social and economic activity and justice as well as happiness. With an Islamic trading account, all interest charges are waived.

4 | Immediate Exchange or “Hand in Hand”

Now that interest rates not being applicable, the next item to consider is that trading is only permitted if it is “hand in hand”. In times gone by this meant face-to-face but in the modern world and with the advent of online trading and e-commerce, which involves an almost instantaneous transaction between broker and trader executed in seconds, is considered halal under Shariah and is therefore permissable.

and they told me they didn’t charge any commission or interest on leverage
and in short-selling, they said, a person can be allowed to sell the debt they receive on the condition that they pay back the debt when they have consent, and so it is halal.
what is your opinion ?
is it forbidden for me to trade here ?

#13

The problem with forex is that you can’t trade with leverage. Not because of intrest but because of speculation. When trading leverage, you just say if the market will go up or down (speculating) unlike spot trading you hold the asset you buy. Speculation falls under gharar money (gambling money), everything with leverage is speculation. And there are no forex brokers that offer spot trading, also no one would participate in forex spot trading since the profit would be very very very small.
So yea it is still forbidden, there is no islamic solution to this.

#14

As a beginner if im to understels you Can Trade on vantage fx , My question is when you open an islamic account

  1. How much do you invest to start with
  2. Are you assigned a trader who places trades for you , making this hands off
  3. Has anyone had experience with this
#15

Assalamu alaikum, one thing tell me Vantage fx halal or haram.

#16

@Mufti_Faraz_Adam @Mufti_Billal

I would like to know your opinion on this one part that vantage fx talks about regarding possession on their shariah compliant account and also your opinions on prop firms which I explain lower down.

So Vantage FX uses CFD which is usually regarded as haram due to not having possession of what you are selling, however from they say it looks as if they believe they have found a way around this. This is when they talk about possession through a “Wakalah” model where they say “Yes there is always possession and we serve on your behalf as agent (Wakeel) to take possession on your behalf. This is also known as A-Book broker model”. So I wanted to ask does this now make the CFD trading halal as their is ownership of the sale and they are taking it on your behalf.

My second question is regarding leverage. Leverage is seen as haram as it is seen as a loan which then is made profit from which is considered riba. Vantage fx replies to that by saying “Vantage FX doesn’t provide any loan to clients. Vantage FX provides margin trading where all trade financing is provided by Liquidity Providers who then charge Vantage FX Administration Fee”. Vantage FX does offer leverage however they are saying they do not offer loans, so I would like to know your opinion on this. Also some people and I have even seen a sheikh by the name of Hassan Hussein talk about leverage and his opinion was that leverage is not a loan but even if it was he argues “It only becomes a riba based loan when the person giving is using his power to benefit from the person he’s giving to and the person it’s being given to is oppressed/struggling. In this situation,it is not the case”.

Finally regarding prop firms, they are a lot different to usual forex trading as the whole time you are trading with a simulated account with virtual funds which you have to earn by passing two tests(you also pay a fee for taking the test). The way they pay out is through 1)The fee of people who lost 2)By copying the trades of some traders at their own discretion using aggregated orders(this is most common way of making their profit). The reason I ask if this is halal is because the usual problems of CFD and leverage aren’t present here.

#17

Greetings, brother. I hope you’re doing well. I want to know what is your view now on the topic since it’s been more than a month. I hope you can reply to me here. Thanks in advance.

#18

Are u sure?as far as i know vantage does not claim that and i was told as far as i can remember they are dealing in cfds,normal cfds not even dma cfds.Leverage is an issue of dispute ( its basically loan).its prohibited if any benefit is there to lender for the loan.if its same service charges that he would charge if u trade with ur money it maybe ok but again by vast majority it will be strictly prohibited ( very few may allow it its a very detailed issue ) my advice avoid it.it may even be haram by consensus.
Prop firm?Depends,If normal cfds and real money involved and u are trading in real market no.Also dont trade indices like nas100 etc even if prop firm is ok remember they may have prohibited stocks i am not sure about nasdaq but there are s&p and others that do so avoid indices that combine so many companies as whole because PROP FIRM COPY UR TRADE.as for ftmo if u are talking about that simulated funds,doubtful.but they are using dma liquidity providers and dma generally means there are funds involved its not pure betting as far as i can tell.thats what direct market access means.So it maybe ok i believe.but ftmo is a doubtful area.if u have sufficient funds one should refrain from doubtful areas and its been clarified by mufti bilal ahmad as far as i know.Overall u are providing ftmo signal service so that seems ok from this prospective.again they can use it for haram and if u know that this can make it impermissible hence there is doubt whether they trade with real funds or fake thats why its doubtful area but saying its prohibited i would not say aswell.
The challenge fee is fair ( ftmo) for different prop firm things will differ its like i hold up examination u pass u will get ur fee back as reward.simple as that and in return i will do business contract with u because u passed and u are a worthy candidate :slight_smile: .i am talking strictly about ftmo not other firms many maybe prohibited also get swap free account u may ask but there are no real funds?Yes but they can deal in interest so at least u will tell them u are muslim so they would not from ur simulated trading environment.if u have any details u want to share with me u can contact me in message aswell.

#19

who can I contact you please? what is ur telegram or discord username??

#20

share ur telegram ill message u there.